brookings institution joins us to talk about the obama administration stand to step up forces for military assistance. "washington journal" is next. ♪ lindy boggs is being remembered as a crusader who blazed a trail and congress. she is described as the matriarch of a powerful washington family. she served as a louisiana democrat for 18 years. we will talk to someone who knew linda c boggs personally. died yesterday at age 97. president obama heads to capitol hill to talk with house democrats about healthcare and other issues. . ,rom the gop side of the aisle

immigration may take place but they have to wait until october. saysor ted cruz of texas the fund obamacare. and one out of new york city, campaign manager for anthony , he has quit. has america become or is becoming a decedent nation? -- at the seated nation -- a nation?st" we want to hear your thoughts. here's how to take part in the program.

if not by phone you can take part several other ways, by twitter @cspanwj, facebook.com/cspan, and by e- journal@c-span.org. this is on "the daily ticker" --

other polls show that 59% of americans feel their nation is on the wrong track, up from 55% at the start of the year. the percentage of americans satisfied with life in the u.s. andlose to record lows now, of course americans remain disgusted by the political antics in washington, which 77% of americans think are harming the nation here cope us as part of "the daily ticker." areoes on to write, "there legitimate reasons for this .ational dyspepsia we're clearly in the midst of an economic transformation that is spending the middle class and making it harder to get ahead. -- that is upending the middle class and making it harder to get ahead.

the economy has grown for four straight years. toowhile growth is still slow, u.s. banks are healthy again, the housing market is recovering, and overspent consumers have largely repaired their finances." is america becoming a defeatist nation? daniel is on the line first from bloomington indiana. hello. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. the idea of being a defeatist nation comes from the idea of being the melting pot of the world. we have allowed our small businesses to be exploited by government. the american culture -- a lot of our older generations came from a prejudiced society. we all became built on the idea we are our own judges, we do not have to be governed by a higher existence of our culture.

to say we are a defeatist is an old idea. is everybody is here, we are all in this together. the idea that we are still a defeatist nation is irrelevant. we all have a chance to prosper. host: thank you. albert is on the democrats line. where are you calling from? to say yes, i just want america is becoming a defeatist nation. it is because of eight years of republican rule followed by five years of republican obstruction. the republican line, pennsylvania, michael is with us. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i really want to say that i have spoken to a lot of my friends lately and a lot of people have

given up because government has become so onerous. it is a bad direction we are going in. we have to really continue. i refuse to give up. i think it is so important for , and it is also important for the people who have come -- who have given us toe of these great things enable america to come what it has become. i think it is so important we do not give up. we continue to fight a limited government cut -- limited government i think we can restore this. one last idea is the whole idea that the supreme court can be ignored.

what this president is doing is emblematic of what he has done through his eight years. he is ignoring the precepts of women and government and self- government. thank you. you whether asking you think america is becoming a defeatist nation. there is a piece here on "the daily ticker." rick newman cites sites some pulling information out there. the dow has hit a new record high at least two dozen times to steer despite higher taxes. and government spending cuts that have damaged the economy -- some sectors such as energy and parts of the tech energy are booming and there are still opportunities to find prosperity. there are a couple of comments on facebook already --

chris is on the line from chicago. hello. i would like to make this a short comment. the americans know now that opportunities for their kids and possibly their children's children will not be greater than the current generation, which is probably the first time in history we are going to be in a situation where the children

of the fathers and daughters will not have a greater opportunity than their fathers and mothers. that demonstrates the current situation. host: thank you for calling. joe from iowa. good morning. you are on the independent line. caller: as far as being the economy, so many factors admit there is recovery. but that recovery, especially from the midwest, is a in coming and effecting many industries. -- is long in coming and effecting many industries. it is still a long ways to go. another factor that is very demoralizing but attributes to the defeatist mentality is that

all of this with the nsa and , they feelberties like they need to watch this to the extent because of the events -- it seems like an open door to infringe upon the liberties of everyday americans. changes as far as the nsa and the rules of the vote that just occurred, perhaps this would help all americans along with the economic recovery to feel better about the state of the nation. host: that was joe in iowa. and via twitter --

this poll is about the direction of the country, a large chart here. you can see the polling has occurred generally within this month. through the economist, reuters, cbs, nbc, abc, everyone has done polling on this question. 29.1% ofrage says that americans say the country is on the right track, 62% is on the wrong track. point nineead of 32 percent overall. you can see the individual numbers as we take the next call from alex from new york, new york. alex is a democrat. what are you think about the direction of the country and whether it is becoming a defeatist nation? i am very interested in that polling and my feeling

about polling in general is that, people love bad news first. someone asks the question, "how do you think the country is going?" likewant to come across they know what is going on and passable thing to say is things are going badly. i live in new york city, so we are naturally rather cynical. the recent events with gay marriage, the reaction to trayvon martin, you look at these terrible shootings and the reaction of the country that make us -- we talk about our problems. we talk about what is wrong. that should make us feel good about being americans. would any american want to live in china, even some former auto

worker who now has to work at 711? would they want to move to china? i bet millions of chinese people would love to live here. ,hat is my unscientific feeling but i am pretty sure about it. since you are interested in the polling i will let you wrap up of if you care to. if manyi am wondering people watching c-span, i watch it every morning tom a -- every things are bad. but in general things are getting better. we talk about our problems. we are honest with ourselves. that is good for us to do that. and so many people call up that are angry and terrified. i do not know where they are coming from, east people that are so scared.

i am from new york city. i understand. i just not get it. of alex there from new york city. he is mentioning china, and there is some pulling out from pew global, who is the world's leading economic power? 20% believed it was china. china, 34%. you can see it is going up from 20 to 34% over the last five years. back to the peace pipe rick newman -- to the piece by rick newman. he writes, -- "china is the world's second-

largest economy, but it also has four times the population of the united states and a command economy believed to hide massive inefficiencies and rampant corruption. income per capita in china is $40,or thousand 900 and which ranks 114th in the world." $4940, which ranks 14th in worldrld -- 114th in the ." caller: thank you for taking my call. at a point the manufacturing jobs started to move out of the country, we started then on the path of becoming that defeatist nation. in my thinking, you either produce or use serve as a nation. the position of strength is to manufacturers. i understand we are global now so we are larger than the united states.

of ourot allow all manufacturing jobs, or eight percent of our jobs per deuce overseas -- our jobs produced overseas, we have to demand that some of those jobs come back. host: how do we get them back? caller: i wish we had the answer to that. i listen to your polls this morning. rally our have to elected officials. i think we have to let them know that the agreements they make with other nations have to include only a percentage of them -- weeased to have to demand that some of those jobs work with the companies here so they understand that we cannot send all of our projection jobs on oh -- our

out of the country. are watching our middle-class decline and we are watching china grow. we are watching india grow. and that is not good for our middle-class. don ritchie via twitter writes -- to facebook -- a viewer writes -- mike is on the line from west virginia now. hello. great program today. -- iady that was just on

do not think the people in the united states, i did not think the unions, i do not think the people in government had ever thought that other countries would have the capability of and losing them here. high, thees went so unions had a great effect upon our economy, both very positive and somewhat negative. i think that is one of the reasons. also been from west virginia, when we look at our economy here and we look at what the epa has and to our coal industry our natural resources industry, it certainly make us feel defeatist. one more point i will make and then i will jump off here, is -- thee pro-government

federal government has completely tried to control the education of students in the united states. know from the educational standpoint, the teachers and administrators are very frustrated. it is certainly in that segment of our population that has given us a defeatist attitude. they are catering to the upper 60% of the kids when they said -- when they set the national standards. 30% or 40% of our kids are not getting the advantages to become the carpenters, electricians, and all of that kind of stuff. host: more of your calls coming up on this question. has america become a defeatist nation?

we want to follow-up on the story of the late lindy boggs. here's one of the many writeups in the papers today. ."is is an "the baltimore sun she lived from 1916 until yesterday, dying at age 97. a crusader who blazed a trail in congress. joining us by phone is someone who knew lindyn boggs. good morning. guest: good morning. more about the trailblazing aspect. what is the history e what is she able to accomplish in congress? -- what was she able to come pushing congress? i think her legacy cannot be remembered in particular pieces of legislation. i think the biggest contribution

she made to congress, and that people will take away whoever knew her, is really the way she did things. this incredible faith she had in both god and the united states -- interesting you are talking about america becoming a defeatist nation. it is something she certainly was not. she cared deeply about the level of goodwill and patnaik missed that was a real strength to her. they thought that was a key to be able to accomplish anything good. if people could set aside their partisan politics and be gracious to one another, therefore find the common ground to achieve good public pol,

they work together across party lines. come tow did you first know lindy boggs and is there one story you would like to tell from your time with her? i got to know her in 1996 when i was working on the senate race in louisiana. close and i ended up living with her for the next three years. i got to know her in a way that few people do. i think that the kind of stories that you can tell -- everybody will talk about her grace and .er politeness that is really how she was in private. when i knew her she was in her early 80s and had more energy than anybody i knew about time. she had twice as much energy as i had. especially when it came to being

a student of history and understanding that importance to really getting what america's , she never the world faith in -- never lost the ability of congress or america to do the right thing. upon me thempressed idea that you really had to go and reach for the very best in people, to assume the very best out of people. we had talks late into the night about american history and him -- american history and the history of congress, always with an eye on how that mattered to today. big lesson that always came that was the more faith

, the highereople standards he set for everyone, the higher standards they are going to be willing to achieve. people will be willing to run for what they want. we know and have read more about the legacy of her family, well-known folks in the washington area and around the country. tell us more if you could. obviously her son is a well-known lobbyist in washington. her daughter is of course a well-known journalist and historian in her own right. she had a daughter who is a mayor of princeton for quite some time. it is a very close knit family. of course there was her husband

who had been a member of congress, held a seat for new orleans. she always remained committed to , he was anof him it extraordinary man in his own right. they were a very powerful, -- a very powerful, -- a very powerful couple. thank you very much for your reflections and insights on the late lindy box. -- lindy boggs. the question being is america becoming a defeatist nation, based on this piece in "the daily ticker," which is part of yahoo finance. the numbers are on the screen, in addition to the other was to get involved in the program. david has been waiting from riverside, ohio on the democrats line. caller: how are you you go host: doing well, how are you?

caller: doing well. this is not a defeatist country. only way we are being defeated is by the be publican party and fox news. -- by the republican party and fox news. they want to defeat the president. you want to defeat the units. -- they want to defeat the unions. the feet education. -- the feet education. -- the feet education. people are coming back and they are tired of these. that is what i have to say. "the new york times" has a story out of egypt, which we have been hearing so much about --

that is on the front page this morning. "the washington post" has this story out of libya -- we have dorothy on the line from hopkins, minnesota, good morning. caller: good morning. i am so pleased having c-span on on air it is such a fresh -- the air. it is such a breath of fresh air. i have been thinking about the economics of our area.

2011 i decided that i was going to commit 10% of my , as little as it is, that i can contribute to my local .rea i increased that 10% to 20% and subsequently egg increased it -- subsequently i increased it 225%. i patronized my local merchants. it is very gratifying. i do find the prices to be competitive. it is not costing me anything. something in my local area.

host: we will now go to houston, texas. caller: we are becoming a defeatist no session -- fetus nation because we are becoming a banana republic with the two big classes, the rich and the poor and a tiny middle class. from detroit to washington dc governments are becoming bankrupt. that is it. host: from milburn, new jersey, a republican. and a: as an engineer person who came to this country in the 70 -- i just assumed this

comment really coming nation, reallys coming together as a global , it is still not -- we cannot change or reverse the that we sent out in the world. we can make sure that most of the money that gets made over in andpe gets compensated spread around the nation of the united states. we really should be the ones that should profit.

they keep on reusing this money to spread more around the world. here is a tweet this morning -- one of the earlier callers mentioned the nsa program. this week's "newsmaker program -- one ofker" program the key congressional critics of the nsa's metadata program, which collects the phone records of certain americans. here is a little bit from the senator on the overhaul of this program. [video clip] vote sought bipartisan this week for the defense appropriations bill.

are you working on a similar proposal with democrats and republicans in the senate? working am definitely with democrats and republicans to overhaul this program dramatically. there have been a number of discussions already. senators on both sides of the aisle -- the discussions have certainly accelerated since that extraordinary house vote. thelready have a quarter of united states senate on record saying that they are very interested in pursuing the issues that are central about this debate. to answer your question, yes we are going to see a very strong and bipartisan effort in the senate to pick up the effort up that i think needlessly intrudes on the privacy and liberties of millions of law-abiding americans. newsmakers with senator

ron wyden. we have a replay at 6 p.m. eastern. mike is hanging on from elizabeth, new jersey, an independent caller. is america becoming a defeatist nation? caller: no, but our government is defeating us. span had a video back in 2008. no one really listens to it. it is a pretty simple solution. one solution was to change a couple of sentences in the irs tax code that would say corporations cannot expense your cannotand corporations

expense your overseas -- the third thing he said was you have to have a representative at he would have a list. the right column would be importing countries. being product was what osha regulations are on these products? they would ask what osha regulations there are from the chinese reporter? you would go down the list and costsuld find a number of that the u.s. had a versus the number of costs that the chinese importer had and you would see there is a great imbalance.

there would be a tariff placed on that imbalance. one listened, he has the solution. did, theything c-span videoed his -- they recorded his speech. i wish people would go back in your library and look at what buddy roemer said. would be.c-span.org the place to go. of the other stories this morning, politico, immigration bill. but it mayhappen wait until october. he told attending's at a town hall meeting that his chamber could start voting in that month, pushing the timeline for action in the house even further back, tentatively. he writes --

senator debt accrues in denver ,- senator ted cruz in denver calling this the last chance to stop the national health care plan before its implementation. that is in "the washington times." the president spoke to the new york times for about 40 minutes. -- president says the income income gap has the -- income gap is praying the u.s. social fabric --

ron from spring, texas. i do think america is a defeatist nation. theime you do not stand by laws or standby standby god you're going to be defeated. they make a lot of excuses for the things that are going on around america and around the world. rush limbaugh and bill o'reilly, when they say this because blacks to not have fathers and , the number one thing with blacks and whites in america, if you do not obey the

laws of god's you are going to be defeated. if you do not stand of the word of god you are going to be defeated. i put the word of god up on the millions of dollars and the million -- and the word of god will come on top. they are on truthful. -- they are untruthful. when people get back to the law youthe rule of god, anytime can can say somebody is not robbery- you see the and a murder somebody. the law says, "innocent until proven guilty." your laws do not trump the laws of god. just have a few more minutes left. i want to get some other -- i want to get some other voices in. sean is on the line. caller: good morning.

i would just like to make a on the adjustments that we have had to make in a global .conomy perhaps.ll a toddler, 1995, itsome tapes in was part of an identification of -- they were made by bill gates. he said the highway at the time, the cassette tapes, they're

still information on the. it is quite obsolete now. he mentioned how things are going to be then and a lot of the things he said then, he spoke of medicare. it is the only time i have ever heard that word utilized other than the fact that -- there was the usage of the possibility of using the axis two weapon transmission of information -- rapid-- the access to transmission of information. host: thank you for calling this morning. charles green writes --

and to twitter here is a piece in "the chicago tribune about an event we covered and are preparing to air for this coming week. it says the black caucus is discussing urban violence at chicago state. this is an event held, and the write up says -- here is a little bit of tape from this town hall meeting. [video clip]

>> i taught school in the chicago public school system for six years before i decided to do some other things. eight of mytime students were killed. during that same. of time -- during that same six of myime, students killed other people. i would go to court with the person who did the shooting in the morning and the family of the person who was killed. we go to their funerals. i have seen a tremendous amount of violence. "the tribune"

acknowledging -- the event itself is readying for air. we will let you know our on-air .romotions for that look for it starting tomorrow. a couple of magazine covers for "trainhe wiki standard," wreck ahead." funding bill started take place. also "cq weekly," taking shots at senator john mccain and ted cruz. to the phones now, vincent

from charleston, south carolina. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. thisnk we can agree that country was found on judeo- christian ethics. they highly influenced this nation. that,l generations after somehow we came to the point where we cannot have that these days. it is not surprising to me at all that america is not prospering. i do not think america is going to become great because a lot of people think they are great. i think america is going to be great when they turn back to their traditional roots. every woman has to wear a long dress and a pink hat every day and all of that. -- that isying is

all i have to say. host: here's the the headline one more time. one last call, benjamin from pennsylvania, republican. i would like to say one i think what is going on -- givingnowden secrets away, i think that is one example that this nation is becoming a defeatist nation. thank you for all of your calls and comments so far this morning. we have found -- we have plenty more "washington journal for you

." coming up, our guests will be from thell chaddock christian science monitor, and later with the troika filing for bankruptcy we will take a look at what will happen when a talent files for protection from creditors. a look at the sunday shows with c-span radio now. it collects on television talk shows, topics include the economy, the detroit bankruptcy, the situation in egypt, and nsa surveillance. you can hear pre-broadcast of the program on c-span radio beginning at noon eastern. today's guests include treasury secretary jack lew, who is making the rounds of all of the shows today. also house intelligence committee chair, representative mike rogers, and christine quinn's, new york city council speaker and democratic mayoral candidate. here "this week" with treasury secretary jack lew and

dick durbin, also saxby chandler's. he is vice chair of the intelligence committee. at 2 p.m.news sunday and another appearance by secretary lu. also you talk republican senator mike lee. state of the union follows at three. candy crowley talks with secretary lew and peter king of new york, a member of both the homeland security and intelligence committees. also dianne feinstein, chairman of the senate intelligence committee. at 4 p.m. it is "faced the nation" by by cbs. bob schieffer welcomes mike rogers and colorado democratic senator mark udall. on c-span radio, brought to you by a public service by the networks and c-span. rebroadcast of the show begin at noon eastern with "meet the press," 1:00 is abc's "this -- k,"@2:00 is fox news "

listen to them all on c-span acrosst 91 point fm, the country on channel 119 on xm sattellite radio, or you can listen online at cspanradio.org. collects the first lady represents the schism of the united states of what women are supposed to be today. are we we supposed to be mama chief? are we supposed be first mate? to navigate that if the president is supposed to be head of state and head of government, is the first lady supposed to be the ideal fashionista? is she supposed to be mom in chief?

if she is going to be first helpmate she needs to understand what is going on in the administration. she needs to understand what is going on in the country, and she needs to understand her husband's political agenda. you cannot separate how the first lady presents herself. and the conflicting expectations the country still has for working life and working mothers. works as we continue our conversation on first ladies, historians and others talk about the role of the first lady and its move from traditional homes and families to activism on behalf of important issues. and the transitioning from public to private life. "washington journal" continues. host: at the table is gail russell chaddock.

thank you for being here. this is the final week before the august break in congress. the question for our guest is, what does congress want to or need to accomplish this week and what is the general mood on the hill heading into the break? guest: my sense is they are already thinking about 2014 elections in a big way. they want to leave this week with a strong message to take back to their constituents. what are the messages from each side being crafted? republicans agree on emphatically is that health care obamacare, is going to destroy the economy and its needs to be repealed. that is why next week they are having in other vote to repeal it. it will be their 40th. they are not seeing very

dramatic -- increasingly its libertarian wing and establishment republicans, john mccain would find himself surprise to among the establishment republicans. host: how bad on the democratic side? guest: i think there is more unity. theme.ve a strong if they can push the republicans to a full hearty act, it changes the scoreboard for the elections. the conventional wisdom would be it is impossible for house republicans to lose their majority. so finedering has been in art and there have been so , it would be very

hard to break them. a government shutdown could be added to the list. you could see something like dramatic turnout ships or germanic voter reddest -- or dramatic voter registration moves. will be with us for 40 minutes to talk about congress as it heads into its august recess. it comes back in september. the numbers are on the bottom of the screen for our guest. the president is making a visit to the hill this week. what is he going to talk about and what is the significance yak -- significance?

guest: last week he set out the campaign theme for the next cycle, jobs in the middle class. republicans are going to look like they are not willing to compromise on a lot of issues, the fact that he is making a visit up here sends a this is an important message for him to send, especially when he found approval ratings are so difficult. traditionally that is a big educator. i want to show a brief tease of tape from congressman jim mcdermott. he is the ranking member on the subcommittee. he dismissed reports that the chief of staff was working on implementing the affordable care act.

isadded that the white house inefficient on this build. [video clip] >> i am on the ways and means committee, i am the ranking member of the hill subcommittee, i have never seen him. >> is that a problem? collects what it says is they are going to make a good talk. the white house has been terribly inefficient in dealing with the promotion of their bill. the 2010 election was a referendum. -- had a referendum on it. we lost to the house. you have to ask yourself, when is the white house going to get up and go? we have been prodding and talking and trying everything we can. problemoing to have a between here and the beginning

because it is law. supreme court said it is the law of the land. it is going to be implemented. you heard it right there, democrats are still -- that is when health care was just a promise. have had several years to see what it is beginning to look like. initially things like being able up to theng adults age of 26 on the family insurance policy, that has been an immediate sweetener. now we are going to be seeing more. were you able to keep your insurance? have your rates gone up? i think when the white house pulls back implementation of the corporate side, that was a very important signal. a lot of people were beginning to say that this was a bill that imposes heavy requirements on

businesses. is 30.time worker copies are not hiring full-time workers -- companies are not hiring full-time workers. it makes it an even tougher pill. --t: cbs pulls to the news cbs news did a poll recently. 39% feel they should repeal it. 36% say expand or keep it. as we go to the phones, congressman tom price from georgia has a bill on the floor. it would prohibit the treasury department from enforcing the health-care law. eric from georgia is our first caller on the democratic line.

basically you were at -- republicans -- cut is not an economic policy. he is trying to get immigration reform for the hispanics and people who are over here illegal. thenot do something like feeder program for the urban area. the black on appointment rate is the highest. -- the black unemployment rate is the highest. is time to look to the black community and help. i was stunned with the latest wall street journal and nbc poll that showed for the first time any roche in and

support for this president among ,is strongest supporters especially african-american voters. , i think of this time at some point the idea was that there would be something clear, and improvement. and i think especially the furtive truce the trayvon martin was another indication of what did this actually produce? countryonditions in the are also startling. race relations have gotten worse since 2008. i think the caller raises an important point. even though where -- even though the president is not up for reelection again, he certainly to support him for

these legacy issues for the end of his term. he wants to do more things for the economy. he has to inspire people like you to vote. with the approval rating as it is that is not likely to happen. we will go to robert in florida. caller: i am wondering what your guests take on it is with several large unions. i am not sure that the other union that have recently sent a letter to the congress, saying that they do not want to implement obamacare within their ranks, i think that is very telling while the administration is out there trying to boost obamacare. thank you. they were concerned about

the affordable care act from the start because of some of the trade-offs that were made. --tead of enormous sacrifices for decades. they have developed for themselves strong healthcare plans, and for them, the affordable care act is a significant step down. i don't think you are seeing anything here. you're just seeing, as you point out, a very important moment, a group that had doubts about this from the start making points publicly. covered congress from 2000 until last year. gail russell chaddock has become the political editor for the "christian science monitor." will face more of your calls and tweets. some of the pushback on healthcare made itself clear here we want to talk about 64 house republicans who sent a letter to john boehner. to bring any legisla funding, what

they call obamacare to the full. -- to the floor. 12 senate republican sent a letter to majority leader reid say they would back it supported government bill unless excluded funds for healthcare. that is a lot of pressure. guest: yes, it is. speaker whoon a to make,- he wanted let the house work its will. under nancy pelosi's leadership, pretty strong guidance from the top. the speaker consistently refuses to say where he stands on issues. beyond imposing or carrying out the role of its predecessor. a bill toon't bring the floor and listened as the majority of support in your own caucus. i would not be surprised if the news -- if he used floor votes and news on this front just as

he did last week with a remarkable bill by arguably his biggest opponent in the house, on a bill that would really dig into what the nsa can do with spying. this was a bill that the speaker did not personally supports, and he even came out against it, but he did a lowered onto the floor. i think you're going to have to see something similar here. he cannot crush the libertarian wing of this party. he has to give them votes. but you will see behind the scenes, as you did with this national security bill, a lot of stumbling to make sure that before voting in the end goes with leadership. host: it is not often the speaker makes a floor speech. here is a speaker banner from wednesday on the obama agenda. [video clip] >> if the president wants to help, he ought to approve the keystone pipeline that has bipartisan support here in the house. he ought to work with us in the

bipartisan majority to delay the healthcare bill about to give the american people, their family, and individuals the same rates he wants to give to big businesses. and he ought to stop threatening to shut down the government unless we raise taxes. host: a little bit of what the speaker wants there. and to twitter for our guest -- is it possible this time that republicans will not raise the debt ceiling? there is a lot going on here, government funding, healthcare, debt ceiling. explain how they might all come together in the coming months. all come together in nine glorious days in september. congress is here for another week, and then they go out for a month. and then they come back here that second week in september, be here for two weeks, then the house goes out, then they are back for a day, and then everything happens at once cared -- at once. that meansyear ends,

government is no longer funded and less they can agree on something. and then sometime after after that, sometime between the first of october and the end of the year, technically the country runs out of money, and that is when a debt ceiling needs to be raised again. so all those things are happening at one time. what some would like to see is a grand bargain that includes raising taxes, cutting some entitlements, and spending cuts, but not to the level that was agreed to in the last fiscal cliff. in a 2011. at that time, congress agreed to two things. spending for the next 10 years, and two, we will have a sequester, which is about $100 million of cuts split between defense and domestic spending. so what you're going to see in september is a real fight over that. democrats have already in the budget they presented said we don't respect those caps because

we are going to have a grand bargain in september. republicans said we already have a grand bargain, and those are going to run on. that will be enough to make it difficult. then the libertarian wing of the republican party all have items. one, and the senate, we will not pass the spending bills unless obamacare is defined it and or defund it. -- defunded. you will see a 20-week abortion limit. it is a congress that has not function well or some would say even at all. but my only sense is that republicans are reading loud and clear -- if they should on the government again, it is going to be something like what happened to newt gingrich in 1995 aired republicans have newly taken over the house, they provoked a

crisis with president clinton, the government shutdown, twice actually. in the end, republicans were blamed, and it clobbered them in the next election. republicans could actually lose the house over this. i think they will do everything possible to avoid a shutdown, but you are not going to hear a word of conflict until the last possible moment. host: back to your calls. new jersey, nick, democrat, thank you for waiting. caller: am i on? host: you are on. caller: i would like to ask a question about increases in healthcare, especially in my case. i am a 69-year-old, retired man. my wife is only 62, she will be 63 in october. toe is my problem -- i have pay for her health insurance. we we are paying $1000 per month for blue cross blue shield. i received an e-mail the new rates starting in september. $1502 a month.

how is a healthcare plan helping me anyway? over $60,000 ae year. to pay $18,000 for one year for healthcare seems insane. that is my question to you. you have said very concisely what the problem is for democrats. this bill.t of that is what you heard a congressman sound so urgent. we want the president out there using all of his eloquence to support the bill, and to convince people like you that right may be going up now, however and the longer run, this is somehow good for the country. currently people not covered will be covered, and that will be good for the country. but it is the case that is not obvious when you open the envelope and look at your own bill. it is going to be a tough one for democrats. i think they have delayed the individualse, but

that aren't currently covered are going to have to start buying premiums, including young people who may not think they are affected at all. maybe they don't have good jobs, maybe they're not working to their full capacity, and it is going to be a hit. i think a lot of people are going into the voting booths in november wondering about this bill just as you are. host: here is a little way from the president from earlier this week. [video clip] >> i am laying out my ideas to give the middle class a better shot. and if the republicans don't agree with me, i want them to lay out their ideas. if they have got a better plan to create jobs, to rebuild our infrastructure, and make sure that we have got great ports all along the gulf, come on, let me know what your ideas are. i am listening. if they have got better ideas to make sure that every american knows the security of a affordable healthcare, well,

share it with the country. and flashingmacare -- repealing obamacare and slashing our budget is not an economic plan. there is no economist who would look at that and say that as a way we will help middle-class families. we will really grow doing that. shutting down the government just because i am for keeping it open -- that is not an economic plan. threatening that you won't pay the bills in this country when we have arty rack up those bills , that is not an economic plan. that is being a deadbeat. host: pushback there from the president. guest: what you just heard is kind of campaign boilerplate. a differenthave boilerplate. but that is the back-and-forth that has been going on for six years now. what republicans say in response

is we will get the economy back by business, grading jobs, and why aren't they created jobs. too much regulation. will hear on this week on the house floor 10 bills -- lessd that will regulation and protect americans from excessive government. talk about concern about spying, the irs scandal some months ago, preventing getting tax-free status if they are too conservative. there will be a lot of talk about all of the downside of big government, and the promise that theusiness is lifted from burden of regulation, and especially the burden of the affordable care act, they will create more jobs. i think the argument you will hear a lot has to do with part- time work. of -- a a lot

statistical title going on about what those unemployment numbers mean when new jobs come on the market. are they full-time jobs, are they part-time jobs? i think the americans who are underemployed want full-time work and cannot get it. group that both sides will be targeting, republicans will say when you have a health-care law that penalizes companies for full-time work, are you surprised that only part-time work is available to you? that is what the debate is going to sound like. now, bruce on the line independent, you are on the line with gail chaddock, "christian science monitor." caller: good morning. your speaker said earlier about advancing the age to be able to keep young people on the insurance until they are 26 years old. the only thing about that is the parents are the ones that are paying for it. there is no government subsidy or anything.

as your 69-year-old caller said earlier, his premiums are going up. everyone's premiums have gone up since obama care was enacted. the new american dream now will 230-hour a week job so you can be working 60 hours because they're going to cut you back to which the restaurant business and everybody is doing already. and then you're going to have to pay for your health insurance. , you't see where obamacare know, everyone has healthcare due to the unfunded law that was passed years ago, why do you have to be treated when you go to the emergency room at no cost or some cost, so then if you have insurance, when you go to the emergency room, they charge you three times more. host: let's get a response. guest: i think if you go back to when health care was first on the floor, there was a big --ument made ford

made for advantages to people who are not covered. that millions of people currently not covered would be brought into this system. there is a difference between getting regular care, pregnancy, maternal care, and going to the emergency room when something desperate is happening. an eloquentt made case at that time that it would be good to try to do this. at the last couple of callers have said, now there are new numbers to look up. we're not hearing so so much of the people that aren't covered . but the people who have had coverage do feel the pain of it. and they have it in black-and- white, what it is it's going to mean to them financially. so it is a much more intense issue, especially in a midterm election when not many people typically show up to vote anyway. the people who show up are the people who are angry, the people who expect something good from his bill they not be angry about

it yet, and may not be the voters that decide who controls -- controls the congress in november. host: 50 minutes left with our guest. duane iscalling, -- calling. caller: good morning. i would like your guest's opinion. i call myself a disillusioned republican. -- reason is sort of like people in congress who pass laws , and including the affordable care act, and then they exempt themselves from those laws. [laughter] and we are not talking about just some, we are talking about whether their democrat or republican, across the board, government and people who pay into the government or have some vested interest are always exempt.

levels, all across the country. i am a self-employed person. .ll of us are feeling this we don't care if it is a democrat or republican. if you are living in this country, and you pass a law, you want to be subject to that law. , butn't have aristocrats that is what it has become. i would like to hear your opinion about that. thank you. guest: without getting into specifics about that, it was one of the big themes when republicans took back the house in the 1994 elections. one of the first thing they did was try to ensure that members of congress abide by the same rules that everybody else does. a lot of perks were taken away at that time. there is a lots of internet rumor out there about special benefits that members of congress gets, but when you run them down, in fact they don't get, if they ever did, it is not

happen anymore. we really need to go through this on a point by point basis. buti am interested in this, it is more obligated. if you send me an e-mail, just for c-span on it, i would really be glad to give you the research i have done on some of those points, and tell you exactly the ones are that you are concerned about. it is an interesting question. host: one viewer via twitter asks us -- can you speak about tax reform and food stamps? what is the story their? guest: food stamps were thrown off the bus when house republicans tried to -- did pass a farm bill bill that has been lingering for a long time. over the years, what the farm tol has become its subsidies farmers, but increasingly food subsidies as well. the health department cannot keep their own caucus together on the cost of a farm bill where

i think about 80% of it is now the food support peace instead of the form support these. piece and said of the form support -- instead of the farm support piece. all of those discretionary programs are now part of a dramatically shrinking pot. the kind of limits that were put 2011 with the deal over the fiscal cliff. that is going to be constraining, all of those programs for the foreseeable future, with republicans committed to -- especially tea party republicans, some of the libertarian republicans -- committed to shrinking government dramatically. i think that is going to be a battle, a constant for some time now. now, from georgia,

democratic caller. democrat, and the democrats did not stand up for what the president did when it comes to healthcare. [indiscernible] host: are you still there, john? he is breaking up. get going, john. standing with the president, trying to explain the bill. why did they do that? host: i think we got what he said. guest: well, that is a really good point. i don't think you would find a stronger supporter of the president than nancy pelosi when she was a speaker. even subsequently, trying to support his the china and program, -- his agenda and program, but it is difficult. it is a consultative bill. you have heard people calling in talking about the impact they

can see in their own lives, but that kind of tough sell is one that people want and expect the president to make, especially when he does not have to face voters again. it is his legacy, his agenda, he should not be taking vacations -- i am speaking for them. he should be out there making a powerful case and working with congress. we ought to see him on the hill not just for a photo op, but these people on the hill working these issues assiduously. host: ringing immigration into the conversation, gail russell chadha, e quotes in one of the -- gail russell chaddock, politico says that a series of bills is coming. maybe not coming until october. while sober, and what is the approach going to be, and why is it going to the piecemeal?

guest: house republicans would be reluctant to take any senate bill, embrace it warmly, and pass it. they're looking to what has happened to their own build and have landed in the senate, which is mainly dying. theiry want to develop own approach. they especially do not want to do anything that looks like a path to citizenship until the security piece is rocksolid. i think the best way to do this is to force people to take votes one by one on elements of this bill, and at the very end, deal with a path to citizenship, if at all. i think the only change i have the in house republicans is increasing interest in something like the dream act. this is an idea that senator durbin has been pushing for a very long time. set aside anything you think about immigration, and just focus on people who came here as children.

and now are trying to get into college, trying to make it live here, they don't have a country they've remember. it is a very interesting turn in politics. focus on empathy. who are these people? i think a similar thing happened with same-sex marriage. who are these people? they are our neighbors, friends. what does it mean to them that second class citizens in effect? you see public opinion shifts, and then you have seen congressional action. that is what republicans are waiting to see. they will push immigration as far as they can on the security side, but as you see public at piñon shifting -- public opinion shifting on things like what happens to the kids come a i you will see movement in congress. but in the short run, the house republicans will take this bill on their own time one by one.

ohio, independent caller named rick. you are on with gail russell chaddock of the "christian science monitor." caller: thank you for taking my call. howuld like to understand reforming the immigration law -- the limit -- the illegal immigrant that are here, you make them legal, how does that help the economy? they keep telling us that making these people legal will help boost the economy, but the rate of the employment right now is through the roof, and the illegal, the americans -- and the legal, the americans who are here now searching for jobs and can't find jobs, i just don't immigrants will come over and boost the economy they can, like, add to

our science -- do something to get us off of this foreign oil. i'm getting off the subject a little bit. [laughter] guest: it is a big one. integration is one of those bill that covers everything. if you take two pieces of it, the supporters of immigration reform would say first of all, let's take the job angle. increase access to this country to highly skilled foreigners, kids that come to this country to become engineers and go back to start businesses in india, let's keep them here, let's make it easy for them to come, let's expand the numbers of h1b visas to have people come. that will help the economy. the first part of it is that software engineers, for example, dy here are saying there is age determination, we are thrown out of work at the age of 40, we are still very good, we are having to train the h1b person, that is not fair.

that is one piece of the debate. at the bottom. the so-called jobs that americans won't do. a lot of americans will say we will do those jobs if they paid more. what of it is a little? -- why do they pay so little? because people with no bargaining rights are doing those jobs. democrats of care are saying let's make those people legal, we give them bargaining rights, that means their wages will go ageseverybody's ridges -- w will go up, and things will get better. but like the health care act, the proof is in what actually happens. the 86 immigration bill that wass a path to citizenship wesley and illegal immigration. it is not. increase this immigration bill -- this immigration bill explains how not everyone will be legalized in this bill. -- itcourage more

encouraged more immigration. you will stop people in the shadows keeping down wages and you won't solve the problem. host: the piece you just mentioned the post today about immigration. they write that the president has taken host: how come, do you think you ? gett: when you actually down to defining who will counter this bill, what kind of records you need to demonstrate, there are people that aren't going to be able to make those standards, let alone follow the path all the way to citizenship. then the other side of that

argument among we encourage more people to come here illegally. most people are not coming here by leaping over a fence or digging a tunnel, they're coming here legally and overstaying their visas. ist of the debate as well how much money are you willing to invest to really track people who are here to make sure that they leave, and if you do that, are you creating an even more powerful state, and that focuses to the libertarian argument about the government listening to all of your phone calls and looking at your e-mail. what are you willing to pay to have a secure immigration system? and added to what you are willing to pay to have a secure antiterrorist system, and you have a real change in government's relationship to individuals. as in "1984," things will go through the roof, and a lot of people are concerned about this. host: we have time for one more

call. marion from chicago, democrat, hello. ask -- i was going to talk about the affordable health care. americans have a short memory because before that, the bills and the price of healthcare was going up. they were going to continue to go up until something was done about it, write? -- it, right? insurance companies were charging more and more every year because that is what people were complaining about. knowthey also need to that, speaking of the illegal people that are over here, when they get hurt, they have to be treated in the emergency room. everybody was paying for that. the affordable health care is supposed to take care of that. that is not started to be

implemented until the year 2014, am i right? guest: you are right. caller: why can you explain it to people? and then the republicans are fighting against funding it. now, that is going to slow it down, too. guest: if they defined it, that will slowly to a halt. i think in the process, it will slow congress to a halt. you are right. that is a very interesting point. we started all of this discussion. one, a lot of people do not have health insurance, and two, health costs are really driving the growth in government spending. and something has to be done to reduce that. that part never made it into the bill. as are medically at the sponsors had hoped. we haven't really gotten into cost containment yet. thatanother thing that is

down the road. you are right -- if the country is to make a transition like this, it is going to take a long view. it is very difficult to take that long view when you are feeling these higher bills on your own mailbox that are discouraging. that is where leadership comes in. summary has to take the points you've made made, explain them, make them compelling, and get enough people to care to vote that way. host: a last call, john, independent. caller: good morning and a thank you for time. i have two issues. one of them is the health-care bill, another is i believe the bill corporation, and i am a corporation, we should be response will to provide insurance for our employees. that is the idea of corporations. we gather our money together, provide better things for not just our shareholders, but for the state of the whole.

that is why we've developed railroads, canals back in the day. on the other hand, any big change to the corporate tax structure, every year corporations should be required to pay up their dividends, pay their taxes. they cannot continue to roll forward and roll it out of the country. if they do roll money out of the country, i think, and i have done this, it needs to be completely on the books because a lot of people i know don't do it, and you report them, nothing happens. time.we are just out of final thoughts on congress and where it is headed. guest: look up on c-span video archives the exchange between the apple computer executive and carl levin, which i think will go down as one of the great exchanges between a member of congress and a businessman on his back with that point. congress going forward -- [laughter] bee put it very well

come a it will be bumpy ride or a bumpy night, i'm not sure what she said. what can they possibly do in nine days? the one thing that i think is going for the country on this one is republicans really do believe that if they shut down government they could lose the house. i think that is the reality that will greece a lot of deals between them and october 1. host: gail russell chadha, washington political added are for the -- editor for the "christian science monitor." guest: thank you. host: we have about an hour and a half left. two separate sections coming up. one of them has to do with cities filing for bangor figured detroit the biggest one in the news lately, but i want to take a look at what happens when a city or a town files for fiscal protection from creditors, and later in the program, we will talk about the obama

administration's plan to provide military aid to rebel forces in syria. we will be right back. ♪ >> this is a website. really it is the history of popular culture. it is a of stories, rather, on the history of popular culture. culture -- it is quite more than that. what i've been trying to do at this site is go into more detail with how popular culture impacts and sports and other arenas, so it is not just about pop culture. what we have on the site are stories about popular music, sports biography, history of the

media entities, newspaper history, so there are a range of things. when i formulated the site, i purposely cast a wide net to see what would work. >> more with pop history digg.com founder and publisher ydig.comle -- pophistor founder and publisher jack doyle tonight on "q&a." >> in a sense helps the south korean unify themselves in a way that was not there before. down,he communists came they were brutal, and a lot of the south koreans turned against the communists in the north. and that sort of solidified their sort of sense of national cohesion and identity. but i think a sense of integrity because having waited, it is

very possible that the self probably would have -- it is possible that it would have this in on its own. >> six years after north korean troops crossed the 38 parallel, sheila miyoshi jager looks at a war that never really ended. tonight at nine on "afterwards," part of booktv this week and on c-span2. >> they would come up as close as they could, and then go into an assault, which meant that they would send squads armed with guns, and they would come ,harging in at our first lines and it is not matter how many casualties they took. those who went down were , many ofby a new wave the new wave did not have theyust pick them up

from those who had been hit, and by force of numbers, trying to push us out of our positions. they say it was one hell of a fight. >> commander rating -- commemorating the 60th anniversary of the korean war armistice, today, one veteran's follow as account president obama and secretary chuck hagel paid tribute to the korean war memorial for americans deserves. today at 5:00 p.m. on c-span3. "washington journal" continues. many headlinese about the integrity of detroit. detroit vagrancy could impact other state and city bank of these. -- citibank rep sees. bankruptcies.

joining us is kim rueben. we will try to learn all about municipality and bankruptcy. thank you for joining us so early. guest: good morning. it is my pleasure. host: start with a definition of sorts. when we use the term bankruptcy and we're talking about a city or town, what does it mean? guest: it means that it has fallen under section nine, and it means that cities or other municipalities are not able to pay obligation. it's a little different than when we talk about a business going into a bankruptcy and that it is a little bit harder to figure out whether you can pay .our bills basically, the courts will get involved as to which obligations you will pay when. host: what are the kind of sit there -- what are the kind of

decisions a city manager or the leadership of a town or city has to think about? what are their biggest concerns? guest: they have to weigh whether or not they have to -- they can make the payment they need to make and still provide the services that they need to do day by day to provide for their citizens. in a place like detroit, paying for police and services right now and in paying pensions. healthcarensions and among perhaps the biggest issues. take us to detroit, and what can you tell us about the structure that it is trying to put together? detroit is in a hard place because it is a city that has been losing people over time, and if that this overhang of old obligations to its retirees. at the same time, it is not necessarily been minutes as well as it should have been over the

last two years. -- been managed as well as it should have been. it has been spending more than it has been bringing in. basically, when it was taken over an emergency manager was taken -- was put into place, it was realize that it had to make some hard voices about who is going to be paid and how much going forward. for the city to get back into his a sustainable path. our guest will be with us for 40 more minutes. -- kiman, senior fellow rueben. talking about cities and towns around the country and bankruptcy filings. governmentderal have a role in this kind of case, kim rueben? didt: i think states he play a role. michigan is probably going to have to step up. it is some of that with the women of an emergency manager. it is hard to think about what role the federal government will play in a bankruptcy just because there are these other

but when government, we think about what is going on throughout the country, it might orthat administration federal government can help municipalities or guarantee some of the debt. host: phone numbers on the bottom of the screen. separate line for democrats and republicans and independents. we will get your calls and in just a moment. it is not just detroit, cameraman, of course. lots of other towns and cities around the country, as many as 100 are either going through this or maybe going through this. this is from the dailyreckon five municipalp bankruptcy. detroit on top with $18 billion in debt. jefferson county, alabama, orange county, california, stop and and san bernardino, california, as long with vallejo, california. just to name a few. how reads this problem?

is that do not think it widespread. unit five, but they're actually not been that many bankruptcies over the history of the united states at the mystical level. so there have been a handful, and more -- we will probably see some more. but we will not see hundred spirit we will probably see maybe a dozen or so over the next couple of years. to figure is trying out how much of it is the obligations versus other things going on at the municipal level. here's the front page of the "detroit free press," city services will improve. this particular piece of thing coverages of the big two story sort of misses the mark. they say things are going to get better in that city. anything you want to adherd? guest: i think that is right. detroit has had pretty lousy day today services over the last few years, so in summary -- in some

ways, coming to term the problems and figuring out how much money yo're going to snd on current services versus other obligations will be helpful. there have been other cities like new york and d.c. that have actually come close to bankrupt it. they did not go bankrupt, but they actually got their fiscal houses in better order or so there can be an upside to this whole process. host: first call. mike from illinois, independent all are. hey, mike. caller: what's up? just an observation is that there seems to be in this lot -- an honest -- a lack of honest presentation of the fact. i'm not talking about what you are presenting today. i'm saying in general. there is a willful confusion for political purposes. the i mean by that is that entire governmental process of

complicatedverly and done in a way that is really contrary to what most people who have ever looked at accounting or understand accounting have done -- understand of it. in other words, and that the average person in the united states does not understand the finance of government. they have no understanding of why a government got into this situation, was it just overspending? enter politics, we enter parties, even racism into it somehow. arepeople the agendas really -- there are certain politicians who were there to confuse the issue. it should not be this complex. overspending, i will throw something in here in the mix, which is i don't believe it is a serious factor in detroit,

unlike what we have in illinois, is the pensions. to there is just a refusal say the honest facts. here, yourhere in guest and maybe others need to level set the stage and say here are the real facts. here is what purposely has been done to confuse the issue. host: thank you, mike. confusionre is some in this. part of it has to do when you're talking about pension pension obligations and you are looking at things that are things you have to pay 20 or 30 years into the future, it is hard to figure out how you get one set of numbers. part of it depends on how we discount that. case, i think it is pretty clear that at least half of the $18 billion that they are in the hole is coming from pension and health care for

retirees. has to do with -- in some ways the caller is right, when politicians often face our decisions, it is easier to push off hard decisions, especially when the economy is doing poorly. part of what we saw in detroit with the fact that people weren't actually giving an honest accounting of what the numbers look like. it is difficult when you have a city that fund as much as detroit has. you have a city that went from 2 million people to 700,000 people, and you have a retiree workforce that was based on that larger size, that you have a fewer number of people have to pay off those obligations now. twitter -- i hope the bankruptcy rate the people of detroit wake up and pay attention to whom they vote for, or vote if they had not before. danny is on the line from south carolina, republican. hey, danny. caller: hey, how are you doing?

host: i am fine. what would you like to say? caller: where i come from, if you don't pay your car payment or your house payment, you have a record in your yard to cker ands it -- a wre your your to refer the the, or they will take your trailer from you and make you move. host: do you want to respond to that at all? guest: i think it is hard. i don't know what you do in terms of repossessing the government. i do sympathize with the fact that it is hard to understand why this is so much more complicated than when people have to do this. host: to twitter, one more question or comment and this is for you to respond to -- there aren't enough taxpayers left in detroit to support the city. how does this work when people are leaving, the tax base or off, and they're planning for the future? guest: i think that is really tough. that is what makes the dro situation so difficult and why i

think we are actually going to see pension obligations need to take a haircut. there are way fewer people, and that it is not clear how they're going to pay off all of these obligations. partly i think the state is going to have to get involved, and i think there are going to have to be some tough choices because there are fewer people involved. is theichael lafaive tivey fiscal policy initia director. what is your take on the situation in detroit? says, willr guest the pensioners have to take a haircut? guest: in all likelihood, it will be a crew cut. the petition should be dismissed. i think you'll expected. when that happens, we might see -- cuts along the lines

offering creditors to begin with, which is a little more than $.10 on the dollar. are there other cities in michigan were facing the same prospect? knowledge detroit now, but we have had emergency managers places or other cities to help reform the city's finances to avoid bigger see. [indiscernible] host: what is your take on how significant it is around the country? what should people be looking for or perhaps bracing for? from 2010 until now, we have had over 30 bigger season municipalities across the the country. i think it is an uptick. but as your guest that, i do not think it will be cumbersome. maybe dozens and dozens, but various emergency managed us around the country might tell us against actual chapter nine filings. host: what about the questions

of assets? we read about city asset folks, folks considering selling off assets to make up the money. how does that process work, who make the decisions, and does it really make a significant difference? guest: your caller talked about not making payments on your trailer or your car. emergency managers do not power detroit even in chapter nine bigger see. yet these power to sell assets. that could be selling belle isle scum of 950 acre island, the detroit river owned by the city. it could mean selling collections, the detroit institute of arts has picasso and they go. the creditors themselves have been pointing to and demanding to help, they them for their loss. july can the other assets fell put up by cities who are not in bangor two. basically put out and it -- an

invitation to bid and strike a deal. if the city manager tries to and the city art collection probably belle isle as well. but other assets people do not know about. [indiscernible] the water department could be sold off to a private, for- profit utility. we estimated in 2000 and with a --it was around even if you adopted all of the ideas that i presented back in it0 four reform today, still would not be enough to make payments to creditors and make sure pensioners got all the money they were promised. to move forward with the chapter filing and start the process, if they have no other choice in light of this inability to contract out all of

the service in the state, and still make the payments that are necessary to give the city of fault. host: michael lafaive is with the morey fiscal policy initiative directors, he is director at the mackinac center for public policy. thank you for being here. to our guest in seven cisco, kim rueben of the urban institute tax policy center, was there anything you heard there that you want to respond to? ways: i think in some figuring out what local governments are going to do and how many bankruptcies there are going to be is an open question right now. i think in some ways depending on what we see in a stockton and might goother cities to the courts more frequently. we actually saw a downturn in the people going, using bankruptcy after vallejo just because that took so long. saw a lot of into ania cities get

better position negotiating settlements with changing their contracts and their requirements. so, are weitter -- prepared for detroit to be owned by a foreign country, through a subsidiary corporation? beware america. we go to ronald in ohio, independent caller. actually, we will do thomas from north carolina, a democrat. caller: good morning. issue -- this is just a question. is part of it because of the tax breaks that have been given to the big corporations and big companies in detroit, who like, moving the in and given a big tax breaks. is that part of it? if theo wondering individual that was in on skype

was talking about wanting to sell off the assets and it --ize this unit but to an independent company or what have you. i believe it is a tough case to privatize an entire city, and really people need to understand that privatizing only means that it is just going to a private company. the money to operate it is still coming from the cities or the governments, so it is not actually privatizing. it is just moving it over to somewhere else some other entity , any services and everything will get worse. tax rates are really a big part of what we see in detroit. i don't necessarily think they are helping. i don't think places are necessarily moving into detroit because of some of the incentives in place. but really what we have seen in detroit have a lot more to do with the fact that the government has been not very transparent with its books, and thesect that they do have

existing obligations from 10, 20 years ago when the city was bigger, and they have not faced up to how big these costs would be. so i think it is a tough case. and figuring out what we do in detroit and keep critters happy and willing to lend to the city if necessary to have the city go -- grow going forward. we will see some of it. i don't necessarily think privatization of a lot of the services is going to be the answer. but there are some assets that you can imagine selling to help with some of these issues. host: by the numbers, there are proximally 39,000 municipalities in the united states right now, and 22,000 of them are located in states that do allow chapter nine bankruptcy, and 36 of those municipalities have filed for bigger see sense did of may. our guest is kim rueben, senior fellow at the urban institute

tax policy center. us from sanng francisco this morning. our next caller is from ronald, youngstown, ohio. hey, ronald. caller: good morning. my question is -- if the cities are granted the bankruptcy, whose pocket is this going to come out of? the creditors are not going to be satisfied with just small payments. they're going to need more than what the city has to offer. on theat raise taxes people in the cities? the city to cause have to restructure everything that they have so that they can keep afloat? guest: i think we will see some of each of those things. i feel like if they actually come to the negotiating table under bankruptcy, you will probably see creditors taking a little bit less money than they

are promised right now. he will probably see something happening with labor contracts and with pension obligations. of thisably -- but part is going to have to be restructuring. depending on how well it is done and what kinds of guarantees are in place, you could actually see a stronger city going forward. because right now it is not really clear detroit can provide the services it needs to provide going forward for its existing citizens. host: one city that got stronger is vallejo, california. post"g from a "washington piece

host: any other respect of on vallejo? guest: i think part of it was going through the bankruptcy process, while he was a hard process for them to go through, and it took a lot of time, and it cost a fair amount of money in legal fees, actually did put some clearer lines in terms of what kinds of cuts you could have in place. and they actually had both their public sector workforce come to the table and some of their creditors come to the table and help negotiate what a sustainable future would look like. orange county also came out of its bankers the process stronger and was able to recover fairly quickly. new york and the sea not actually go into bankruptcy, but going through some sort of restructuring actually helped,

and put into place some safeguard so that they actually have more transparent books and are more conservative in what they are saying they can do and can't do over time going forward. host: bruce is coming from chicago now. bruce is a republican. welcome to the program. caller: thank you for a much. i just wonder if your guests can clarify whether there is any ,onnection between the unions the unions donations, the democrats, and the democratic leadership in most of these places that are now underwater. it seems like the corruption seems to follow the democratic unions. guest: i think that is a little strong. i feel like there have been promises made to a lot of retirees and pension obligations. the times has been in when and local governments have had top budgets and

negotiations. they lost when -- they have often substituted pension payments for wages. because it was a way of pushing it off into the future. see art of the reason we lot of the tension on pension obligations right now is when the stock market actually declined, it made it very clear that there were big gaps in a lot of places. to do with of it has union power, but part of it also a tendency of to not look into the future and think about longer- term obligations. host: we have about 15 minutes left with our guest, and carol is calling now from rochester, new york. on the independent line. caller: kim has already touched on many of my issues, but how does she see the monetary future of some of these big cities that basically have broken

government. , ande vote with their feet the people that stay are the ones that can't leave. thank you. guest: it is going to be an issue. we've seen a resurgence and a lot of big cities over the last few years, which has been really optimistic for me. i have been really pleased with it. part of what we're going to see as some of these cases get resolved in the courts is to see whether there is a trade-off, and whether they're actually can be negotiations with some of these pension obligations and the debt. i think right now there is a lot of uncertainty about how primary and what kind of changes you can make to pension obligations for existing workers. there has been a lot of changes going on by governments for new workers. it is just not clear what that is going to mean for the actual bill because there has not been

a lot of piling over the last 3, 4 years and most state and local governments. host: a couple of other items. from the local paper here, kim "post," they say detroit go the case may have a long reach. guest: i think there are arguments in both sides.

it seems like if you go into , we might see more local governments go through it. if you look back to the vallejo experience in 2008, there were a lot of other local governments who were thinking about it who were deterred because of the costs involved in going through that process were so high. governments were able to negotiate and avoid bankruptcy court because the legal costs seemed so high. can be those outcomes possible -- i think we will see a little bit of both. in terms of local governments, there might be some spillover effects but part of it will be very determinate -- dependent on the local government. post -- tohe local

our guest, they talk about five myths about detroit. one of the myth says that public engines sunk the city's -- pensions sunk the city's budget. when theemind us of downfall started and what went into it over the years? guest: detroit has been losing population since the 1960's. they have a much larger public workforce. they did not shrink as much as they should have over time as they lost population. part of this has to do with the demographics in the city. there washelp when fiscal mismanagement. over the last five or six years, there have been $100 million in budget gaps each year.

part of it has to do with what is going on in detroit but a lot of it is being driven by the demographics and patterns we are in the city and midwest more generally about the fact that people are leaving and it's going to make it harder and harder to pay off some of these longer-term obligations. ost: we spoke about the potential for federal environment -- involvement. they talked about the detroit bankruptcy filing in the senate minority whip of texas city would add an amendment to a transportation spending bill to keep detroit from getting any federal aid. [video clip] detroitno reason why should receive a bailout from washington. i hope the normal bankruptcy process will be allowed to go forward and i hope that the

bankruptcy follows the rule of administrationma resists any temptation to meddle in the process and play politics. host: he says, no meddling. guest: in some ways it becomes more problematic when you think about what the president would mean for other places. role fornk there is a the obama administration to say, in terms of helping guests, the politicians to the table and act as an honest broker or play a role in this. the new york to almost bankruptcy, the federal government was involved. what will have to be determined is what kind of precedent is set and how big a problem it is broadly and what it will mean for the economy more generally. : v is an independent color.

-- victor is an independent caller. caller: i want to make a point here. when gerald ford said there was only one way to bail out new york. -- can remember when gerald ford said there was only one way to bail out new york. i was looking at the gallons of gas the american people purchase . about 1.3 $3 billion worth of economic value. gasoline, $1.046 billion. in 18 days -- [no audio]

i think the market has a substance abuse problem. would it is suffering of his monopolies. what it is suffering of is monopolies. guest: i think there definitely is some issue about, maybe we could have more fuel economy. i think we're moving in that direction with some of the new technologies. i'm not sure how much that will help it place like detroit. i think there are all sorts of things that we should be thinking about. prices are high, so it might

not be a popular thing to suggest, but it might mean that we should have higher gas taxes and prices should be even higher if we think that will lead to more con separation -- conservation. host: kim rueben is senior fellow at the urban institute tax policy center. she joins us from san francisco today. caller: looking at your program this morning, as a former city official in the city of flint, the question is pretty bankruptcy. -- pre-bankruptcy. a michigan you have government to appoint financial managers to take over these cities. backroom room as

a former city official, i have seen the most valuable assets of the city of flint given away with no big contracts, basically to his friends, such as the golf course, the garbage collection, our local farmers market for not even pennies on the dollar. one of the greatest examples in the story that needs to be examined is the superdome in pontiac. that financial manager of pontiac gave the superdome to .is friend and then he resigned partnership. they formed a corporation that made millions of dollars. basically the same thing is happening in the state of to treat aook bankruptcy.

all the assets are given away. it always ends up in the hands of the governor or the financial manager's friends. i don't know enough about the specifics in michigan and flint, but that might be a reason why may be going through thanourt system is better doing it not through the bankruptcy court. if you feel like there isn't getting the best price for assets. if you're in bankruptcy court, there's an obligation to actually try to get the best price if you're going to get rid of some assets. it might be a more straightforward process. things in michigan are contentious, to say the least. you have these demographic issues, but you also have the politics that a lot of the tension obligations are kept locally as opposed to other states like california.

you think about it place like stockton or san bernadino, they basically have the same budget issues, but the fact that they are arguing -- bargaining with the state pension funds rather than the individual means that there is another party involved and it means that the state has a vested interest in trying to make sure things are sustainable because ultimately they will be on the hook for the pension obligations. in michigan, we don't see that explicitly on paper, but implicitly, the states going to have to get involved -- state's going to have to get involved. know,one viewer wants to did detroit give in to the big three over the people? talking about the automakers. there is aink legitimate question about whether the fact that the federal government has done a

lot over to sustain the car -- and that was called saving detroit, was a little misguided. faces,are interested in maybe what you should be doing is earmarking money for those places rather than subsidizing specific businesses. looking back, what the federal government did in terms of sustaining the automobile industries over the past years has been helpful for the economy overall in terms of the fact that they are thriving now. it's important to note that they are not all in detroit. is a lot ofissue this has moved out of the city in the first place. host: a collar on our republican line. it's not unusual to agree with the commentator and the last couple of callers

administratorsn are some of the most highly compensated jobs in the states. here is what i don't understand. listen on c-me to span two 22 of the hearings concerning the financial crisis. to know what relationship some of these special financial vehicles has in some of the shortfalls in the pension fund shortages. little bitroit is a unusual, but a lot of the pension funds are facing the same thing. could you address that, and address what type of safeguards can be put into place? what we need are actuaries, good planning. it seems like a lot of this has

to do with the financial crisis and some of the bond and junk taxers, and all of the statements that have been giving with -- tax abatements that have been given with short-term planning. there are a couple things going on here. the caller is making a lot of good points. pensions, the fact that in some ways pension funds and politicians are incentivized to try and have the highest return, even if they're not going to get that -- if you have a higher expected return and you can discount what your obligations look like, it gives you incentive to invest in things that are risky. there is an argument that what we should be doing is discounting what the obligations and use a lower interest rate, which will

increase cost liabilities. to 2007 and 2008, there were a lot of city managers who are not necessarily that sophisticated who ended up being the last people in the pool for some of the interesting, highly leveraged financial instruments that were being traded that were part of the problem and the cause of the financial crisis. ways, it can be appealing to want to invest in things that seem like they can get a very high return, especially when interest rates are low. be nice if there were more safeguards in place that actually kept city managers or financial advisors from investing things -- in things that are hard to understand and probably risky.

if we go back to the orange county bankruptcy, that had nothing to do with the underlying fundamentals of what they were spending their money on and everything to do with the fact that they were trying to get higher returns on their savings and they invested in things they shouldn't have, which left them vulnerable and short of money. host: one last call for our guest, on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. showrd on the joe medicine that thoseson show affected with the bankruptcy got together with the emergency financial manager and put a plan on the table to help with the city back on track. it took a big hit and that was turned down. about been reading lately henry georg and reading his

book about progress and poverty and he talks about the land value tax. it would make detroit a shining city on the hill. i'm wondering if you could fill me in on the land value tax. thank you. what land taxes are, what it is saying is we should be taxing the underlying value of the land because that is something that is a mobile and it cannot very. i'm not sure it would help detroit that much because right now property in detroit is pretty cheap and it's not clear there is a lot of value. part of what we are seeing in detroit is they are trying to shrink the city. when people want land taxes, it is a way of trying to tax something that doesn't move and to try to have things tax equitably across different properties, no matter how you are using that property. host: our guest has been the

senior fellow of the urban institute tax policy center, kim rueben joining us its inferences go this morning. thank you for your time and perspective. one more segment left in this "washington journal toca "washington journal." theill have a guest from brookings institution. the topics one of today's sunday television talk shows. other topics include the economy, the detroit bankruptcy, the situation in egypt and nsa surveillance. you can hear rebroadcasts on c- span radio beginning at noon eastern time with nbc's "meet the press." is a guest, also mike rogers and christine quinn, new york city council speaker and

democratic mayoral candidate. eastern, secretary lou, dick durbin,- lew, and vice-chairman of the intelligence committee. at 2:00 p.m. p.m. eastern, fox news sunday with another appearance by jack lew, and mike lee. "state of the union" follows at 3:00. guests include secretary lew, .eter king also, senator dianne feinstein. 4:00 p.m. eastern, "face the nation" from cbs. , and mark udall. the sunday network tv talk shows on c-span radio are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c-span. rebroadcasts begin at noon eastern with nbc's "meet the

press. " .t 4:00, "face the nation" listen to the mall on c-span radio on 90.1 in the washington, d.c. area. channel 119. download our free app for your smart phone or listen online at spanradio.org.- c- history of popular culture, a collection of stories on the history of popular culture. it is quite more than pop culture. what i have been trying to do with this site is going into more detail with how popular andure impacts politics

sports and other arenas. it is not just about pop culture . what we have on the site are stories about popular music. we have some history of media entities, newspapers. there are a range of things. when i formulated the site, i purposely cast a wide net to see what will work. doyle tonightack at 8:00 on c-span's q&a. the topic now is syria. our guest is michael doran, senior fellow at the center for mideast policy. also a former defense department official and former official at the national security council. this was during the presidency of george w. bush. think you for being with us this morning. the headline this moinu.s. to sd

rebels. what have we we learned about arms shipment? questionere is an open about whether these arms will get to the syrians. -- theision to arm them obama administration was under pressure because the president had set a red line with regards to the use of chemical weapons. he said that would be a game changer. established that the regime had used chemical weapons, the president was under pressure to do something. that came at the same time that bollah increase their support on the ground for the assad regime. the president felt he had to do something. the president never actually

rolled out the decision himself. no high-level policy official made the case for it. it was more symbolic than real. any of the kinds of weapons we are talking about sending to the opposition will change the military balance on the ground. host: symbolic, what exactly do you mean? about when youe said they actually want to get to the rebels. won't actually get to the rebels. the announcement was not rolled out by the president himself and when it came time for the intelligence committee to be briefed on it, they balked and said they want a more significant plan from the administration. the administration came back and the committee has agreed to it. but an enormous amount of time has been lost. it is still not clear who is going to get what, when it is

going to happen. something will probably change hands but it will not increase the power of the opposition in any measurable fashion. host: the phone numbers are on the bottom of our screen, who is here to talk about syria. get your take first. guest: the president clearly is reluctant to get involved in syria. hesitancy, in fact clear opposition to any suggestion that we should get more deeply involved. host: why? guest: a number of things. it is his political legacy. he said in his inaugural that he is into 10 years of war. it is in his mandate to bring the troops home from iraq and afghanistan and he is reluctant to start another war. is that waror him

is a slippery slope. once you get into these conflicts, it is difficult to get out. he can't see a clear path to victory in syria. he sees potential quagmire. have written with michael o'hanlon that obama needs to act now on syria. what are you talking about? guest: risks of inaction are greater than the risks of action. zonesd like to see safe in the north, around aleppo, in the south. we should arm, train, and equip elements of the opposition. we should become the strategic reign of the opposition and help them with intelligence, -- brain of the opposition and help them with intelligence. i want youore point to elaborate on. there is an actual benefit to delayingctn or having seen

action delayed. had aesident's reluctance beneficial effect. tell us more. guest: we never had this in the middle east before. the saudi's, kuwaitis, british, , turks, jordanians, are all interested in seeing a more robust policy. they are all saying it, some of them publicly and out loud. host: the first call for our guest to was educated at princeton and stanford. he worked as a defense department official in april 2007. he was appointed to that position. it was a deputy assistant secretary for public diplomacy on thefence and served national security council from 2005 to 2007. the first call is on our republican line. caller: thanks for taking my

call. the gentleman, if i might make a few comments, please. i have once every 30 days to express my opinion. the gentleman is from the savannah institute, part of the think tank. tank, part ofan the think tank. there have been oh files, articles about mr. saban. interest,he has one and that is israel's interest. is expressing on that perspective. we have no control. we are not able to manipulate. the only beneficiaries have been israel and iran. it is a disaster. we spend trillions of dollars.

afghanistan has been a disaster. we have no capacity to control their. both of these countries are , it hasor we have left been a disaster. syria, the people we are proposing to support our -- are hadists, enemies of the united states. there is a substantial christian .ommunity in syria they want to chase them out of syria or kill them and this is who we are supporting? it is ludicrous. i'm a republican. there is a noninterventionist component of the republicans, and americans. we are sick of this craziness for israel. guest: the idea that i'm working for israel is just nonsensical. saban is israel he but has

never told me what to write or what to think. but he has never told me what to write or what to think. the bigger question is whether american interests are better served by doing nothing. i think it is quite clear we have been doing nothing or close , andthing for years now the situation has gone from bad to worse. there are significant threats to the united states. to surrounding countries, many of whom are allies. turkey is a nato ally. we are bound by treaty to come to the defense of turkey. their border with syria is putting them in a difficult position. they have hundreds of thousands of refugees on their border. the kurdish issue has been

exacerbated. is defending towards civil war. one of importance we got from the iraq war was bringing a significant amount of iraqi oil online, which has given us the ability to put sanctions on iran. if that supply of oil is threatened because of spillover because of civil war in syria, that will have consequences to the united states. if we sit back and do nothing, there is a vacuum in the region right in the heart of the arab world. we still have interests there. people will step in and fill that vacuum, including the doing nothing is not going to do jihadis. it. host: a caller on our democratic i would turn it back on the line. yourr: i appreciate collar and say, if you are theerned about jihadis and opinion, i just believe, being the uncle of teed up soldiers growth of al qaeda, what is your plan for stopping them? faced soldiers that have

wars in iraq and afghanistan, as an american i don't have any more nephews or grandchildren that i want to send over to the middle east to provide peacekeeping techniques. i'm saying this on a personal basis. i'm not as well educated into the politics. i know the oil companies use any to create someit sort of a peacekeeping effort by the united states, but as an american citizen who has seen teed up of my nephews in uniform, i don't want to see anymore over there -- two of my nephews in uniform, i don't want to see any space more over there. i want to see all of our children home. down to acomes different calculation about how best to protect our citizens, and including our soldiers.

ofhink the example afghanistan is a good one. we were involved in afghanistan in the 1980's and then we pulled back and neglected it. we developed an al qaeda safe which ledch -- haven to 9/11. the idea that we can pull back from the world and we will be able to stay out of everyone's is not borne out by past experience. policy,orward leaning one in which we are working to shape events on the ground, working actively to create a new order in the middle east that serves american interests, is the best way to go. in terms of my recommendations about putting a large number of american boots on the ground and putting men and women in harms way. i'm talking about a set of policies that will be relatively .isk-free

recent headlines from the bbc news middle east. syria rebel leaders hold talks at u.n.. guest: it's an opportunity for rebel leaders to get their message out, to be seen in the united states. the most serious question is, what is u.s. policy going to be? aaron is in the state of washington, on our line for independents. ask michaelnted to how the emergence of rand paul, who represents the more aspectrian isolationist of the republican party is

influencing or complicating the .ebate guest: i just taught a seminar of 21, 22-year-olds. it was mixed democrats and republicans. among young students who are 21 and consider themselves republican, the rand paul libertarian isolationist sentiment, i would say is the dominant sentiment. it's a very significant sentiment, particularly in the house. would say that has strengthened president obama, in the sense that his gut level intimation is to stay out and and he is not being criticized by the tea party and libertarian elements in congress.

it is a very significant development. a twitter comment, how do we know the right people will get the weapons? that's a great question. you hear often when talking about syria that there are no good guys over there. i don't think that is true. there are a lot of good guys over there. it's just that the opposition is tremendously fragmented and the jihadi elements are well organized and effective. that is one of the reasons why we need to be more involved. we need to increase the power of those who represent a vision of syria other than a radical islamist vision. inalso need to be involved order to coordinate our allies, particularly our gulf allies who are offering support in one of

islamic radical strains. if we are going to coordinate with our allies, and we will have a more beneficial effect in helping the on the ground that need to be helped. denying that there is a danger that weapons from the u.s. could fall into the wrong hands. the assad regime were to fall, there would still be continued fighting among different elements we were supporting. syria is a problem that no matter what we do is not going to go way. involvementvel of is going to put us in a better position. host: what else do we know about the syrian rebel force? guest: it is fragmented. significant element in syria in general is the profound parochial quality of the

politics. we also talk about it as a sunni -shiite issue. it is an issue that has been grafted on top of local politics. we talk about the opposition, the free syrian army, that is a label for all opposition forces. there was an attempt to put together a unified military force. even those calling themselves the free syrian army are fragmented by region and then you have elements outside the free syrian army, the al qaeda syria.n rich is calling from new york, democrat. caller: hi. believe that the reason why were not going to be able to successfully help the syrians as well, for one, our economy is in

shambles, we're having a hard time coming up with the funds to support our military. our military is spread so thin. because our military is spread so thin and it is receiving less funding, how are we going to client state?iet still the same policies, they just change the flag. we can't do nothing. we've got to take care of our own selves first and let syria take care of themselves. we can't keep being the world's policeman. there comes a time when we have to pull back our forces and regroup and reassess the situation. we are not strong enough to qua

ll every problem in the world. number one, we have very wealthy allies in the region who are willing to pay a lot for greater u.s. contribution to the effort. the gulf war in 1990, 1991 did not cost the united states a penny. i think we turned a profit on the conflict. issue, i think that could be -- there are ways around that. if we pull together, the saudis, kuwaitis, french, british, turks, jordanians, ed -- and we y, and z,.ng to do x,

if we can pull out without harming our interests and things will be better for the united back and if we pull say, jordan is destabilized, i guarantee you we will be back in and it will be much worse for us because we will be back in without the kind of alliances in place that can help us share the burden of protecting our interests. one of the things we are engaged in here is creating an order in which thereast in will be shared responsibilities so the united states can do less. but our allies, the system there is not set up so that when we pull back, others move in and protect our interests in the way we think they should be protected. that the u.s.ays sending weapons undermines credibility in any of these deals. guest: russia was on the way out of the middle east as a significant power.

our inaction in syria has increased their influence and their position. we are stronger than russia. it is just a fact of life. to a certain extent the obama administration has been hiding behind the russians. it has been convenient to say, we can't do anything because it will anger mr. putin. a is hard for me to imagine situation where mr. putin says to his advisers, we can't do anything because it will after -- anger president obama. "chicago tribune" writes -- ap says that the syrian opposition condemns soldier killings.

anything else you want to stay -- say about that? of people majority that have died have died at the hands of the regime. thatrare to have a regime killed civilians with such impunity, that ethnically cleanses, uses artillery, drops tnt on bakeries just to kill people and clear them out. from a humanitarian point of view, it is karen this. i do stand some of the -- horrendous. i do understand some of the callers who say, we cannot be the world's policeman. to the become inured killing. iran and the enemies hashe united states, iran

moved into the vacuum that has been created in syria. are very influential on the ground now. they have turned the tide in the fighting there. i think we need to be concerned about that. most of the callers calling in have discussed the al qaeda presence. presents bothers me the most. host: susan from boston is on independent line. thank you for allowing me to speak. for your, mr. doran, service, but i have to echo the caller from new york and pennsylvania. republicans, democrats. that anybodyounded would advocate for intervening in syria. as desperate and sad as the situation is, the fragmentation of the opposition, the presence

of al qaeda, the presence of a no-win -- it is situation. we are a bankrupt nation facing a looming explosion in obligations to our elderly who are retiring by the millions. we have an infrastructure that rivals third world countries in central africa. we have a power grid that goes that isthe 1920's fragile, precarious, and subject to break down any time there is a heat wave or other crises. our ownt educate children. our political system is -- talk about fragmentation and unctio-- is on the theollapse due to disappearance of bipartisanship and sanity at our national level. i can't believe you would -- let jordan fall.

let our so-called allies rise to the occasion. these are people with educated, wealthy governments. they can step up to the plate. in an ideal world, it would be great to intervene, but the american century is over and proven in have been iran and afghanistan have brought our nation to the point -- i don't believe the american century is over. while i share your concerns about them, many of these issues we have here at home, i don't think they will be better served by the united states pulling up stakes and leaving the middle east. as problematic as it is. i agree with you, it is extremely problematic. from my point of view, i think we are going to find -- as every president since eisenhower has concluded -- that the united states has vital interests in the middle east that has to

protect and they cannot do the job alone and it needs to develop allies and build coalitions that can help look after those interests. as imperfect as those allies and coalitions may be. host: just under 15 minutes left with our guest. "the newas appeared in worries mount as radicalized muslims leave west for syria. young muslims are traveling to sera -- syria. from 9/11 until just there was a consensus in our national security establishment that the united states could not allow failed states and ungoverned spaces in develop, especially

when they were going to become safe havens for al qaeda. is one have now in syria of the most significant safe havens that al qaeda has ever had. it's right in the heart of the middle east. there is ongoing conflict there. i don't think we can sit back and watch this and say that what happens there is not going to affect the vital interests of the united states. host: more context in the "new --more westerners are now fighting in syria than fought in conflicts in iraq, afghanistan, somalia or yemen. there is concern that they will come back with a burst of eal, enhanced weapons and explosives skills.

a democratic caller from maryland. i want to add to what the others have been saying concerning this conflict in syria and the entire world. i want to know, what will we actually achieve if we take part in this conflict in syria? let me say something before you can go into your questions. i think he will be like we are -- it willr own foot be like we are shooting our foot. even the christians in syria are supporting assad.

i saw that on the news. besides syria, look at egypt. refused tow have contend what is happening there. this entire region, there are smart people like us, reasonable uneducated people like us who ofe the power and right helping to solve this problem. must why is it that we solve the problem? the middle east is full of smart, intelligent, judicious people. but imoments like egypt and syria, levelheaded moderate people get pushed to the margins and the extremists with guns are the people who take over. the united states is the only power in the world that can pull together all of the interested

toties in the middle east help stabilize syria. that is why we have to do it. we have to do it not because we love any particular party there, but because it is in our interest to have a much more stable order than currently exists. hero writes at twitter, do we ever consider the cost of war in human lives? does it count in the equation somewhere? guest: sure. who are000 people killed. the women and children who are killed daily. 5000 per month to our dying. an syrians are paying incredibly heavy cost. the idea that u.s. intervention will lead to deaths is just wrong. you: another tweet -- if like afghanistan and iraq, you will love intervention in syria. leo calling on the republican

line from the bronx, new york. last week there was a big prison break in a rack -- iraq where al qaeda in iraq helps free about 400 people. it is believes many of them will end up going to syria and fighting in that war. my question is, the weapons we sent to the syrian rebels, will they be used against the syrian or will they be used against all mistrust -- al- misra? what will the impact be on the situation in lebanon. the prison break is an example of spillover from syria. has gotten anaq

enormous boost from the conflict in syria. dynamics asternal well. we have elements of eastern sierra, an al qaeda safe haven and al qaeda safe haven where they can operate with impunity. we would vet the opposition and give it to trusted members of the opposition. the arms will not be used the fight as far as the sunni population in syria is

concerned is the fight against assad and that is where our help is needed. a democratic caller. hi, bill. caller: i have been listening to all the callers. they are excellent. you're obviously a very intelligent man. you have a position. but i'm not sure it is picked up on the fact that these colors have made excellent points. to of the main things i want mention is, the sequester. it is interesting that we cut 10% in unemployment happened station and we have at least 25 million people unemployed or .nderemployed iraq is not even worth

mentioning, what a disaster that was. shiites are now at each other's throats. you are one person, and you have some influence, but i'm not sure you are going to change your point of view even with massive amounts of people calling you and giving you great insight into some great points. anyway, going into syria -- where will these billions of dollars coming from? guest: i would like to thank you for calling me well educated and intelligent. i like to talk to you more about that. but perhaps i should talk about syria instead. as i said before, i would turn what ison you and say, the development of an al qaeda

safe haven in syria, what kind of impact will that have on u.s. interests long-term and what is your plan for dealing with it? do you think we should have a plan for dealing with it? what about the strengthening in iran of hezbollah? is that of concern to you? last year iran supported a plot hereow up the ambassador in georgetown. two years ago the obama administration said that iran and al qaeda were in alliance together. these are things we have to be concerned about. the lack of attention to them prior to 9/11 brought results that none of us would like to see happen again. if we pull back as you are, we're going to find ourselves at some point having to go back in worse than what

we have now. --t: "new york times" netanyahu agrees to release 104 palestinians. the prime and asked her to will release 104 palestinian prisoners, most of whom have served 20 years or more for resume on israelis, to negotiations. your perspective? guest: i am among those who think the chance we will get an israeli-palestinian deal is pretty slim. i think the center of gravity in the middle east today is the syrian question. is where the minds of all of our allies in the gulf -- all of our allies in the gulf are focused on that question, the iranians are focused on that question. if the u.s. is concerned about building a stable order in the

region that will protect its interests, that is where it they should be concerned as well. i have a simple question regarding sending arms to -- the arms tod about sending rebels, how will the u.s. government ensure that even if we send arms to the rebels that we think are on our side now will not switch sides later on? if you look at the late 1970 they flipped0's, sides afterwards. how can you reassure who we think are our friends now wi fr? guest: there's no guarantee of that, especially in the middle east. we build up the soviet union in the fight against nazi germany. after the war ended, we were in

a rivalry with the soviet union that lasted about half a century. foreign policy is like life. the solution to every problem breeds new problems that you have to deal with and there is nothing you can do about it. host: our guest has been michael doran of the brookings institution. he is senior fellow at the saban center for middle east policy. morning --nteresting have an interesting morning set up for it tomorrow. the program starts at 7:00 eastern time. the federal health care law and what it means for all of us. we will kickoff the partnership series. three senior correspondents will the impacttalk about on consumers, health, and insurance.

they include mary agnes carey, j hancock and sarah varney. lots of answers and input on health care. enjoy the rest of your sunday. we will see you back your tomorrow morning. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> next, "newsmakers" with senator ron wyden. next, hearing on the children of illegal immigrants. >> it is interesting that the korean war has helped the south themselves in a

way that was not there before. when the communists came down, they were brutal. the south koreans turned against the communists in the north. --s all fight their sense it's all if either sense of unity. solidified their sense of unity. 60 years after north korean troops crossed the 38th neverel, they were the really ended. tonight at 9:00 on "afterwards." they would come up as close as they could and then go into an assault, which meant they

would send squads and they would come charging up it did not matter how many casualties they took. those who went down were followed by a new wave. they had no weapons. they just picked us up. by force of numbers, they kept trying to push us out of our positions. they say it was one hell of a fight good >>